Human Experiences: The Founders of Deem Journal on Definitions, Interconnectedness, and Sharing Stories
Marquise Stillwell (left) Contributor, Co-Founder; Alice Grandoit-Šutka, Editorial Director, Co-Founder (center); Nu Goteh (right) Creative Director, Co-Founder. Photo by Guarionex Rodriguez, Jr. Courtesy of Deem Journal.
By Julia Gamolina
Deem Journal is a Los Angeles-based biannual print publication and online platform which positions design as social practice. Born out of the belief that design is a constant part of our daily lives, founders Nu Goteh, Alice Grandoit-Šutka, and Marquise Stillwell, along with their collaborators, realized a disconnect in the way people talk and think about design. The founders share the perception that humans are often preoccupied with aesthetics and the tangible output of design as opposed to the diverse, process-oriented practice that it is.
In response, they established Deem to reimagine design as the process of adding value as well as a fundamental, shared experience. The journal provides an in-depth look into the function of design within communities through careful consideration of their histories, exploring futures where design forges inclusive dialogue and intersectional dignity. Centering design as a social practice allows for non-traditional designers to identify with the field, expanding the consciousness of design as a complex lived experience, accessible to an array of audiences across disciplines.
In their interview with Julia Gamolina, the Deem Journal founders discuss the meaning of design, inherited ideas, and creating a new future, advising those just starting their careers to remember that their lived experience is as valid as anything they read.
JG: Let’s start at the very beginning – I’d love for each of you to tell me about your backgrounds! Who wants to start?
MS: Alice!
AGS: [Laughs] Alright. I have a background in anthropology; I’ve always been interested in culture and people. I was able to apply this interest and knowledge within the context of cultural arts organizing, which is how I spent my time for over a decade in New York and Los Angeles, among other places. I primarily worked with musicians, which was very exciting to me – I always say that if you have a chance to work with artists, that makes you very well-versed in different styles of communication, something that is very necessary for bringing ideas to life. In my approach to cultural arts organizing and music, I’ve always thought of these things as a way to use culture to unsettle the status quo. I was really doing the work of trying to connect ideas and culture.
NG: Unlike Alice, I started in a bit more of a self-serving phase of my life [laughs]. I worked for a lot of lifestyle brands, and that’s actually how Alice and I met. I had an interest in the intersection of art, design, fashion, and music, and so I spent a lot of time figuring out how to cultivate narratives in getting people to find value in those things. After spending twelve years in this space, I started asking myself how I could move away from selling things, ideas, and concepts, to move towards solving problems, especially problems that were embedded in communities that I was a part of. This led me to the world of design. I went to Parsons for a degree in design thinking called Strategic Design and Management, which really helped me reframe how I perceived design and what design could be. My goal became to make socially engaged work cool and enticing.
MS: For me, language is so important. I think that we’re all artists, we’re all creative, but because of a capitalist approach, we’ve all been streamlined to doing something else and saying that we’re not artists. It’s not a process of becoming an artist, I think it’s ensuring that we don’t lose it. For me, I’ve never lost the idea of being an artist, or playing with different techniques. For us, creating Deem has been about creating evidence of the work that we’ve been doing, and also to provide evidence of representation beyond “the industry.” Because the industry is there to limit the amount of people involved. I guess in a roundabout way I’ve answered your question…by not answering the question [laughs].
Deem Journal’s first issue, “Designing for Dignity.”
Deem Journal Issue 4, “A Sense of Place.”
You answered the question by questioning the question [laughs]. From here, I’d love to know how Deem came about.
NG: Deem came at an interesting intersection. Alice and I started our creative studio, Room for Magic, and at the same time, Marquise and I had a relationship because I was a fellow for OpenBox. There was a moment when Alice and I were trying to shape and get an understanding of what our practice is, and what our perspective is, and at the same time, engaging with Marquise, there was what seemed like a great opportunity for the three of us to come together and start to have much more rigorous, design-based conversations.
What we saw was that design often falls into the realm of “the fidelity trap,” meaning that if I tell you that I’m a designer, the question you’ll most likely ask me is, “What do you design?” The trail of thinking in that is that the output of design is tangible – it’s an object, something you’re creating. And then that object is judged in terms of fidelity – there are usually certain expectation of scale and craft. What we saw is that fidelity is a relationship to resources and capital, because in order to achieve fidelity, you need to be able to have the resources and capital to produce that level of design.
When we got to that point, that design is bound by fidelity, fidelity by resources, and resources are not evenly distributed, we realized that there were so many people, including ourselves, that we weren’t seeing in the design ecosystem because we did not have the same amount of access to resources. What we thought was very important was to look at the true essence of design, which is a process – the process of adding value. And then, how we can highlight the voices of people participating in that every day, and who may not have the resources or evidence to document their work at a certain level. We got together and started to think and talk about the design industry, in which we all participate in, and asking ourselves, “Where is the opportunity to reflect design in a much broader way?” We asked what the best output for this was, and had all gravitated to print media. We’ve all had forays into publications previously, so together we had a perfect synergy of intention and a love for creating evidence needed to showcase all voices.
“...the role of our platform is to elevate, expose, and express work that moves beyond the limitations of what we describe as architecture and design. ”
When did you first have the seed of the idea, and when did the first issue come out? And, how did the journal evolve since then?
AGS: We had the seed of the idea in the fall of 2018. I remember this vividly because Marquise had given Nu a call about it, and it was the most exciting opportunity, ever! When Marquise presented the idea I was in deep reflection about what it could mean for us to shape editorial that would help us build a discourse that we saw was missing. That was everything to us.
We started bringing together ideas for what this could be then. We spent 2019 developing the framework for the first issue, “Designing for Dignity,” and then bringing it to life in print form. I know a lot of coverage about the first issue of Deem happened during the summer of 2020, but I always want to make sure that it’s on record that the magazine was made and published in 2019.
The Black Reconstruction Collective on the Architecture of Equity
Designing Motherhood, on Rethinking Reproduction. Moderated by Alice Grandoit.
Absolutely.
AGS: We’re very happy that the issue resonated with people in 2020, but this has been our perspective long before the rise of consciousness that summer.
We started with an expansive research inquiry, being conscious that this would be our first impression with the world. Dignity was the theme that we found most grounded in, it laid the foundation for every inquiry to come because it centered access, needs, and desires that affirm life. We approached this topic through three entry points – hyper-local food systems, social architectures, and co-living, a dive into how we reshape our homespaces, our foundational spaces of being, through the lens of the collective.
Another big reason we thought about print was because based on the design praxis that all of us have, a question that people always ask is, “Where is the data?” For us, Deem was a way for us to build that evidence, to build that data, and we realized we have so much of it, that we needed to think of the best way to put it together. Print is a powerful tool.
“What we thought was very important was looking at the true essence of design, which is a process – the process of adding value. And then, how we can highlight the voices of people participating in that every day.”
I read in a Fortune interview with the three of you, that print was very intentional, and very important to you. Can you elaborate on that?
AGS: One of the things that we had found in this process of print has been cultivating a slow media practice. We want media to hold your attention, not to steal it for a few seconds. This is also a way for us of building a discourse that people can reference beyond one moment in time. There’s something really beautiful about picking up a past issue, and seeing that it doesn’t feel dated. To be quite frank, to make this kind of media in the current media landscape requires a lot of time and rigor, and also a lot of care. We do this through all of the research, the commissioning, and the editing, it’s a highly collaborative process for us with all of our contributors.
NG: I also want to add that each issue we put out there, each theme, is an inquiry that we’re putting out there, a net that we’re casting. One of the things that is always interesting to me personally is how people receive the inquiry and the information. Especially with issue one and the timing of it, when we put it out into the world, the unanimous perception was, “Oh my god, this is what design has been missing!” But really what I found and what excited me the most was being able to talk to both young design students and senior designers, many of whom said, “I’ve had these exact thoughts and have been yearning for ways to see how design can have more of an impact, and this gives me space to be able to reflect on that.”
That’s one of the most important things for us; we’re not just about output and objects but about process, and this gives people an opportunity to reflect on their own process. My favorite reaction that people have is when they say, “I didn’t think of myself as a designer until I read this piece, and this helped me step into my power as a designer.”
The first-ever Reference Room was a public gathering space for people to experience some of the reading materials that have inspired Deem’s three issues. It is our hope not only to provide context and access to educational tools around Deem’s processes and beliefs, but also to create a haven for reflection and repose.
These books, articles, and essays represent a combination of our research, specific mentions from our pages, and recommendations from some of the contributors to our third issue, “Envisioning Equity.”
It is our hope not only to provide context and access to educational tools around Deem’s processes and beliefs, but also to create a haven for reflection and repose.
That’s very powerful. I completely agree.
Finally, for those entering the world of architecture and design, what advice do you have for them? What would you encourage them to do in pursuit of these realms?
NG: The advice I would give, which I also give my students, is that the current idea of design that we follow was created by somebody else. We’ve inherited the world that we live in. The prompt I pose to young designers is that they now have an opportunity to conceptualize an idea of a future that affirms, centers, and uplifts them. They don’t have to inherit everything as fact or as truth, because ultimately, it was all shaped by people.
MS: My advice is to never live by definitions and words. We are moving along a next generation that is very fluid – with gender, with identity – and it’ll be up to the older generation to let go of the language and definitions that hold us back. There is something very important from an intergenerational place, but us that are older need to be careful about definitions and realize that we are really passing along a spirit of culture.
And we need to share our stories, because at the end of the day, what we’re all doing is manifesting stories within objects and buildings. What happens inside are stories. And when those buildings are gone, the stories are still there. We look at the changing neighborhoods even here in New York City, and reminisce so often about a coffee shop that used to be in a certain place, or a store in another. The stories remain – people hold those memories, and those memories are very real. Nothing can replace human experiences and who we are as human beings. We need to live beyond the built environment, and live to be as culturally and environmentally rich as possible, and be interconnected as people.
AGS: To add to what Nu was saying, I think affirmation is important too. For young people, someone telling them that their perspective and their lived experience is as valid as anything they will read is crucial.
“For young people, someone telling them that their perspective and their lived experience is as valid as anything they will read is crucial.”