Setting the Tone: Kirsten Sibilia on Her Own Way and Catalyzing Change

Portrait by Coe Hoeksema

By Julia Gamolina

Kirsten Sibilia joined Dattner Architects in 2010 as Chief Marketing Officer. In 2013 she was elevated to principal (one of the first allied professionals to have ownership in an architectural firm in New York State) and became Managing Principal in 2016. As managing principal of Dattner Architects, Kirsten is focused on the health and vitality of this 100+-person mission-driven firm. Her design training and entrepreneurial spirit have allowed her to approach the business side of the practice as a design project; with each initiative, she reflects the firm’s commitment to improving public life, and seeks opportunities to invigorate communities (inside and outside the office) and the urban environment.

Previously, Kirsten held marketing and leadership positions at FXFOWLE (now FXCollaborative) and JCJ Architecture. She started her career in our industry at Mitchell Giurgola Architects, after working in sales and management in art publishing and textile design. She graduated from the New School University with a BFA from Parsons (Product Design) and a BA (Liberal Arts) from Lang College. In her interview, Kirsten talks to Julia about growing up in the industry and thinking strategically about firm evolution, advising young architects to appreciate where they work and to get involved.

JG: What was the first seed of your interest in architecture?

KS: My mother studied art history in school and became a travel agent, starting her agency when I was three years old. Whenever she could, she took me and my sister away, mostly to Europe. There was a lot of wandering in cities, looking up, and going into every interesting building that we could. From the beginning, I was trained to be observant, and especially to art and architecture.

You studied product design in college - what did you learn both about yourself and about design?

The way they framed product design at Parsons, and design in general, was that it was really scale-less. We studied everything from graphic design to architecture, and I was particularly interested in designing things that were utilitarian. I had friends who were purposely making sure that you couldn’t wear something, but for me, addressing the function and getting something that was beautiful, engaging, and useful drove me.

Kirsten Sibilia as a child, playing office with sister Keely, in 1971.

What did you first do out of school?

When I got out of school in 1990, there was a recession - no design jobs. In college however, I had been working for a woman, Andrea Aranow, who had this fabulous collection of antique and ethnographic textiles; she had me help her document them. She was starting to sell, not only to museums, but for home furnishings and apparel designs. When I graduated, she hired me full time. I helped her do sales and trade shows, and we went around the city and the world to collect.

It was a great experience of learning how to interface with clients, listen to what they thought they wanted, help make a pitch, to close a sale. However, after a few years, I had to admit that the work wasn’t satisfying to me. The sales were often transactional, and the apparel industry was cut-throat. I learned that I needed to work with people I could trust.

I realized that I could write, I could talk to people, and I had some core business skills as both of my parents ran their own businesses, and I learned a lot from them. I decided that as long as I could be in the design world and work with like-minded people, I would be okay, even if I wasn’t doing my own design work.

What did you do?

I ended up applying for a job at Hardy Holzman Pfeiffer Associates. Malcolm Holzman interviewed me, and it was clear that I was not right for the job — I don’t know what the job was in retrospect. But he was really kind and told this great story about how sometimes they would go after projects and they wouldn’t win them, but they’d make a nice connection with a client, and they would get the next one. In this same vein, he asked if he could hold on to my resume and I said, “Of course!”

A couple weeks later I got a call from his former marketing director, Christa Mahar who had moved to Mitchell Giurgola Architects. She was looking for someone to help her. I learned then what a small industry we’re in, and how, by putting your best foot forward, having integrity, and being open to things, opportunities would come. I have seen this manifest again and again, not just for me.

“I learned then what a small industry we’re in, and how, by putting your best foot forward, having integrity, and being open to things, opportunities would come.”

What did you learn there?

Back then, Mitchell Giurgola was about a 30-person firm with open work stations, which engendered a lot of dialog. I came in not knowing much about the practice of architecture or marketing and I was able to soak so much up, within a very engaged and collaborative culture.

After a couple of years I was ready to do more, and I ended up at Fox & Fowle, now FXCollaborative. The partners there wanted the firm to be broader - their portfolio had been focused on private K-12 and development, they wanted to do more, and they knew that marketing was an important part of that. I was able to help them with this by building a department and creating processes in business development, public relations, and marketing.

You spent ten years there, correct?

I did - I really do feel like I grew up there. Over time, I became a trusted advisor in many areas and that was wonderful. Whether it was new markets, firm transition, or strategic planning, I had a strong voice and fabulous mentoring as well, especially from Bruce Fowle. I can’t imagine my career without having worked for Bruce for so long.

How did Dattner come about?

I had met partners Beth Greenberg and Bill Stein at Dattner Architects through mutual AIA commitments over the years. While Chairing the Oculus Committee at AIANY, I worked side-by-side with Daniel Heuberger, another partner at Dattner. When I left FXFowle, I first went to a firm called JCJ Architecture. Not long after, Daniel said to me, “If we had known you were leaving, we would have been trying to get you to come here.”

I spent a couple of years at JCJ. As much as I was learning, it was another recession and a hard time for many in the industry. Working for a firm with multiple offices and a more formal corporate structure was a great learning experience, but I felt like I was wearing clothes that didn’t fit. That helped me better identify the things that I valued and needed in a position.

Kirsten at the recent “Our City. Our Projects” photo contest gallery opening at Dattner Architects, with juror John Hill AIA and Dattner colleagues, Fall 2019.

Kirsten with Career Readiness program participants and colleagues at Dattner Architects, Fall 2019.

What were those things?

In order for me to feel satisfied, I needed to feel like the work my firm was doing was having an impact where it mattered most. The social justice aspect was a big part of the attraction to Dattner. I had an opportunity to build on their mission-driven values and help them grow, evolve towards their goals, and respond to the market. I realized that was one of the things that I was pretty good at doing — being a change agent and helping to catalyze strategic initiatives.

How did they want to grow and change at the time?

They felt like there was untapped potential in terms of both the work they were getting and the recognition that they had. They were interested in taking on larger, more complex projects; in strategic growth and diversity of the portfolio; and in making sure that within their historical context of civic architecture, that there was enough breadth. It’s healthy both fiscally and culturally to have a variety of work.

How long have you been at Dattner now?

This month, it’s ten years! I didn’t start out as a partner, but when the law changed in New York in 2012 to allow non-architects to be owners, they asked me if I would join the partnership. That was a big deal for us, and fabulous for me. I think we were only the second architecture firm in the state to do that, and the first one in the city.

It was a rewarding public acknowledgement of the role that I had, and that marketing, strategy, and business development could have a seat at the table. Having ownership was a healthy sign for my peer allied professionals too — you could have a job where you were recognized for the value that you brought, even if that value wasn’t strictly making architecture.

“It’s healthy both fiscally and culturally to have a variety of work.”

Yes! I think what you’ve done is amazing for marketing, business development, and public relations professionals because at so many firms that department is seen as secondary. Can you talk about that a little bit and why it’s not secondary at all?

You’re setting the tone for the future of the firm by the projects that you choose to chase and the clients you decide to cultivate. Those are the projects that everyone is going to be working on in the office over the next few years. You can and should talk about what you want as a firm, write strategic plans, and come up with manifestos, but you also need the follow through, which is dependent on having great people to bring in and design the types of projects that implement those ideas.

For a firm like us, at 110 people, each project that we work on can change the complexion and atmosphere of the firm. It’s so important that we’re getting the right projects for us to manifest our value proposition. Some firms understand that, and that it doesn’t usually happen by just one rainmaker. It takes a village, with everyone in the office understanding the goals and the vision. The firm needs to be producing good work to get the next project for sure, but the strategy and perspective that marketing can bring is essential as well.

Where are you in your career today?

A couple years ago Dattner asked me to become the Managing Partner. We had never had one before. My job — my project — is the office and every component of that. Marketing will always have a big place in my heart and in my work, but my role now is about creating an environment that is a good place for people to practice. This means creating a healthy, diverse, inclusive, and collaborative workplace, and a financially-sound business as well, so that we can produce the impactful work that we are known for and cherish being a part of.

I follow you on Instagram so I know you’re a mom. How does this role influence your work, and vice versa?

I think my decision to come to Dattner was in part about the role model that I wanted to be for my kids. As a mom, demonstrating that you can, you deserve to, and it’s critical to work doing something you really believe in and to work with people who you trust and who respect you is really important - and that you can enjoy your job too!

Both of my kids – who are young men now, really - are creative intellectuals, and it can be challenging to know what the possibilities are for them, professionally. The traditional careers that people talk about don’t hit home for them. So, I hope I’ve given them the idea of forging your path — it doesn’t have to be something someone else has done, you can find your own way.

“Having ownership was a healthy sign for my peer allied professionals too — you could have a job where you were recognized for the value that you brought, even if that value wasn’t strictly making architecture.”

On a similar note, tell me about nurturing young staff and helping them grow. What have you found that has worked for talent cultivation?

We can’t do good work if we don’t have good employees, that’s for sure. We’ve been trying to more clearly articulate how to identify top performers, regardless of level, and make sure that we’re sharing that information across the studio leadership, so that everyone understands. Also, finding a way to individually mentor so that each person feels appreciated and knows that there are next steps for them within their career is important.

One of our current challenges is having multiple generations in the workforce - the expectation for progress, support, and engagement comes at different rates for different employees and we’ve tried to be responsive to that. We do find that technology is a fabulous way to excite people and turn the table a little bit, allowing emerging architects in the office to demonstrate their abilities and expertise. Having that collaboration across generations within a project is so powerful.

What have been some of the other challenges for you in your career?

Both a challenge and an opportunity was that there wasn’t really a road map for me. My generation helped to define and push the boundaries about the importance of the role a marketer could play in a firm.

What have been the biggest highlights?

The moments when I’m the most proud are when I go visit one of the projects that I helped to identify initially - whether I wrote the proposal, nurtured the contact, or was part of a competition that we did—and I have seen that project progress through the studio through a robust exploration of design ideas. And then to see it built and occupied! Kids going to school there and loving it, or people living in a new affordable housing development - the first home that’s been their own. It makes those late nights and days working on Excel spreadsheets just worth it! It’s so rewarding.

Kirsten giving Open House New York tour in 2017.

I love that even though your role is different, what you love is still the completed project. Who are you admiring right now?

The name I keep coming back to is Patti Smith. She has so much integrity and is provocative without being off-putting. There’s something so beautiful about the environment that she seems to create around her and her willingness to share and be a part of it. She’s been this solo voice with an uncharted path.

I’m also really excited about my kids’ generation. They’re seventeen and nineteen, and in growing up with technology, their expectations are incredibly high for how we should collaborate and share information. There’s something so beautifully empowered and leveling in that. Them coming into their adulthood is going to shake things up in our industry, and it will be our obligation as firm leaders to figure out how to receive them and help them to continue to be energized and productive.

I read recently that Millennials are known as the first digitally native generation but that and Gen-Z is the first socially native generation. I’m also really interested to see what that means as they come into the workforce – a lot of our readership is Gen Z!

And they’re optimistic too, which we need!

“You’re setting the tone for the future of the firm by the projects that you choose to chase and the clients you decide to cultivate.”

What has been your approach to your career, and what is the impact that you’d like to have?

I learned that you can’t always make everyone happy, but many of the roles that I play are about thinking strategically and developing consensus. Not everyone is going to be supportive right off the bat, but I still have to be bold enough to bring up new ideas and help make tough decisions. Usually, if you’ve done the right thing, over time people can see that.

Sometimes I think that my mission is to prove that a mid-size firm can survive. It’s been such an era of acquisitions and mergers, that there are moments when it feels like the manifest destiny mentality of mega firms is going to mean the elimination of all others. It’s really important for the industry though that there are multiple firms, voices, design approaches, and ways of working. The mid-size firm has the ability and agility to deliver a high level of design and caliber of service, and to create a work environment, or work culture, that can focus on employees in a way that is too special to lose.

Finally, what is your advice for those just starting their careers in this industry?

It’s wonderful to have aspirations and goals, but take the time to learn and to appreciate where you are too. And usually, doing what you’re doing well is the best way to get to the next place.

I also think that professional organizations like the AIA, SMPS, or ULI can be meaningful opportunities to connect and reflect on your role and your position -- and learn some skills. Certainly for me, growing up in the industry, I was able to take on more responsibility through those organizations. In leading a committee for example, I learned how to run a meeting and how to pitch controversial ideas. For me it’s always been a big area for professional growth because working peer-to-peer with other people who are invested in making the world a better place is so gratifying.