Building Relationships: Business Development Expert Julie Brown on What Works, What Sets You Apart, and What Matters
By Julia Gamolina
Julie is a sought after speaker, networking expert and business development strategist. Julie has been invited to speak on the power of networking and relationship building by numerous conference organizations and private companies across the country. She is the Author of This Shit Works: A No-Nonsense Guide to Networking Your Way to More Friends, More Adventures, and More Success, as well as the host of This Sh!t Works a podcast dedicated to all things networking and business. Julie talks to Julia Gamolina about how our authentic and best relationships can result in our best work, advising those just starting their careers to grow their networks, within and outside of their workplaces.
JG: Tell me about how you grew up and how that planted some seeds for what you’re doing now.
JB: I grew up as the middle child of three daughters. I think middle children are their own creatures, and I think there’s the whole argument of nature versus nurture - am I loud, gregarious, and outspoken because I was born that way or because I was the middle child and I had to be [laughs].
I had a relatively normal path in going to high school, then going to college, and then planning to find a job after. I graduated from college and my first job was working for one of my mentors for a little over a year. Then I moved to the city, but I didn’t know exactly what I would be doing with my life, and I answered an ad for a marketing assistant position at an architecture firm. That was in 1999, and I’ve never left the industry!
What did you study in college?
Oh that’s a great question. I have a pre-med biology degree [laughs], I studied biology in college. I also had a minor in business administration. I didn’t really know what I wanted to be, but I did love science, and we’ll get into that later, how my degree contributes to some of the research I do today.
I quickly realized that I wasn’t meant to become a doctor though, so that was that [laughs].
Julie with an audience member after a keynote speech.
Julie with the WWIRE (Women's Wellness in Real Estate) audience after a keynote.
Lucky for us that you didn’t! Tell me about your evolution in the field of architecture.
When I took that first job, it was at an engineering and architecture firm - big E, little a. Through this position, I started to fall in love with the built world - how buildings and cities are put together, and how it all influences us. After three years, I left that job to take a position at Sasaki, working specifically for Sasaki Sports. That’s where I fell in love with architecture and its place in academia, and until I started my own business I really loved working with college campuses. I fell in love with architecture and how buildings and their design make us feel.
At the same time, I married an architect! Chris and I met in the good old-fashioned way before iPhones and dating apps — we met at a bar — but everyone thinks we met in the industry. I was working in architecture, he’s a residential architect — both of those things really solidified for me that this is where I should be and put my talents.
Over the course of the sixteen years or so before I started my own business, I worked for engineering firms, for Sasaki twice, for Perry Dean Rogers for a number of years, for Shawmut Construction, as well as a few other firms. Within these firms, I got to see all sides of the industry - engineering, architecture, construction - and all from a business development perspective. I saw all sides of how projects and teams are put together, and how work is won.
That’s a really healthy perspective to have.
Yes, and because of that, I have colleagues from all different kinds of firms, and that’s one of the ways how my network became so powerful. I had all of these relationships and past colleagues in all corners of the industry.
What did you learn specifically about architects working in all facets of the industry, and then what led you to write your book? The book is amazing, I couldn't put it down.
Thank you! The story behind writing my book starts with the subprime mortgage loans collapse in 2008 and 2009, and what that did to our industry. The collapse absolutely decimated it. There was about fifty percent unemployment for architects at the time.
Oh my god.
Yes. At the time, my husband had been working at the same firm for twelve years. A few years before the recession, we made a decision that when he turned thirty-five, he would go out on his own. He turned thirty-five in 2010, at the very bottom of the recession. Every industry was having a very difficult time, but architecture was hit especially hard, particularly if you were focused on the academic market, because all the schools were now faced with endowment collapse.
Chris and I had been planning for two years for him to go out on his own. At the time, we were both on reduced salaries, so I said to him something to the effect of, “You’re not making money working for someone else right now - so you might as well take the leap and not make money for yourself!” So Chris quit his job, incorporated his practice, and then I got to work helping to build his practice.
I was still working at Sasaki at the time, but there was no conflict of interest - he was working on residential projects, and I was working on large academic projects.
“I also wish that, when I was twenty-five years old, someone had told me how profoundly the people I meet would change my life.”
I picked up the phone and started calling my network, and up until then, I’m not sure I fully understood the power of my network. I was calling and saying, “Hey, I know it’s a weird time, but Chris is going out on his own, so if you know anybody who is looking for an architect, or that can make introductions for him, that would be terrific.” I did that consistently, and what happened was that people knew me, and liked me, and trusted me, and that translated to him. People who had never met him before were hiring him to do major projects because they knew me and trusted me.
At that point, I thought to myself, “There’s something here...I can do what I’m doing for Chris for multiple firms, and I can also teach other people how to do this because this is clearly so powerful.” I ended up doing both. Five years later I left my job and opened up my own consulting firm helping practices build their business through relationships coupled with strategy. In the course of doing that, I started being asked if I would speak professionally on networking and business development and that’s how the book came about. After each speech, I was getting the same questions over and over again from the audience. Because of this, I wanted to share and consolidate a lot of information in one place.
It’s really a terrific resource.
I just thought, “If everyone has the same questions, I need to write a book that answers these questions for people.” I wish somebody had answered them for me! I learned as I went. I also wish that, when I was twenty-five years old, someone had told me how profoundly the people I meet would change my life. Part of my job, my career, was to meet people.
What did you learn about architects through this? What do you think architects need the most, or need reminding of the most?
This is a loaded question [laughs]. But this is what I want to say. In order to become an architect, you have to be so good at your craft. The process and the rigor you all go through in your schooling and then in practice to become architects is not for the faint of heart. You are all so wildly talented and that’s why you become architects. But guess what. So are all the other architects. So, what sets you apart? That’s a hard pill to swallow, knowing that you’re so good at your craft and that you’ve worked so hard to get to where you are, but so has everyone else. What will set you apart is the combination of relationships that you make, and also your ability to be a thought leader or a teacher to other people about what you know.
Becoming a successful architect, or rather an architect with a successful business is more than being good at your job - being good at your job is just the start. Then you have to ask yourself, “How can I grow? How can I meet people? How can I build a network?” Through your relationships and through your expertise is how you build a thriving business - it’s a very well-rounded path.
Julie and her husband, Architect Chris Brown, Founder of b Architecture Studio.
Quarterly Women in Wine and Design networking events that Julie hosts.
That’s really amazing advice Julie, I’ve never heard anyone articulate it like that, and it’s so true. There are so many architects that do beautiful work - so doing that is not enough!
It’s a really jarring thing to hear as an architect! One of the first things I said to my husband is, “I want you to forget, in a way, that you are wildly talented.” Because people will go out to three or five architects for their home, and they’re going to decide who they want to work with over the course of designing their home, which is a really intimate experience. Who do they want to interact with for years of their life? Clients want to be able to work well with someone over the course of years - how do you become the person that they want to sit at a table with over and over again.
Right, these are really important relationships. For you personally, what have been the biggest challenges in your career, and doing what you do in architecture?
The biggest challenge has been comparing myself to others throughout my career. I was constantly asking myself, “Am I as successful as I should be at this age? Am I living up to my full potential at this age? Should I have done more by this time?”
So many people think this, I think.
Right, I’ve realized that these questions are universal. Everybody deals with these kinds of comparisons, thinking whether or not they have done enough by a certain time. Most of our biggest challenges we put on ourselves.
Where are you in your career today? You’ve written this book now, so what’s next?
You asked this, and I immediately started smiling [laughs].
I’d say that means you are in a very good place!
I work predominantly in the architecture, engineering, and construction worlds, however, I am starting to become known outside of those worlds. In a nutshell, I help firms uncover where their work is coming from, and the status and strength of their relationships. I ask them who their referral base is, how strong their relationships are, if they’ve identified their targets, what their social proof is, and then we create strategies around that. It’s all about relationships and connections.
One thing I didn’t mention about the book is that it was important that this book was written in my style. There are a lot of networking books out there, you can find a lot of great advice, but I don’t think anyone worded it the way I did.
“That’s a hard pill to swallow, knowing that you’re so good at your craft and that you’ve worked so hard to get to where you are, but so has everyone else. What will set you apart is the combination of relationships that you make, and also your ability to be a thought leader or a teacher to other people about what you know.”
You are absolutely right! Your tone was so approachable, fresh, and fun, that beyond the great advice, the book was also a delightful read.
Thank you! I wanted it to be very down-to-earth, and feel like a conversation between me and the listener. I wanted people to think, “She sounds like me!” or, “I feel and think this way too.” You read so many books where you can’t relate to the author or their experiences.
Out of the popularity of the book, I launched a podcast in August of 2020, also called “This Sh!t Works.” The root of the podcast is also networking, business development, and relationship building, but it goes deeper than that because we talk about what affects the way we build those relationships, and what affects the way we walk into a room and approach people. Essentially, it’s all about the way we feel about ourselves, and so I interview sleep coaches, or specialists on confidence-building, or specialists on body-positivity. When you do business development, and you are an architect and you’re giving presentations, you have a number of eyes on you, so you need to feel comfortable in your skin. It all relates.
I can really relate to that with how Madame Architect is evolving too. At first, we primarily focused on architects that needed to be heard about, but now we also focus on wonderful professionals like yourself, who are great resources for architects. We want to both celebrate and provide resources for women who are architects.
Absolutely. It’s all of it - networking, business development, relationship building, and all the other things that affect that.
I love that. Who are you admiring right now? Whose work do you want everyone to know about?
I thought about this for a while, and I feel like I admire everyone who has started their own business. Starting your own venture is not for the faint of heart, and in these times of change, I admire everyone out there who is trying to educate and create social change, using whatever platform they have to create a better world. We no longer need to look to celebrities to find somebody to admire - there are people in our lives who create impactful change every day. That’s what I look for.
Right, one of the upsides of various social media platforms is that everyone can be their own PR person. Finally, what advice do you have for those just starting out? And, would your advice be any different for women?
I feel incredibly lucky that I get to do something that I love every day. I have lots of little pieces of advice, one of which is to make sure that you’re doing something that you love. It’s not true that if you do something you love, you won’t work a day in your life [laughs], everything comes with its own sets of challenges and administrative minutia, but the work does feel different if you love it. You will work harder for it, and you will ultimately be more fulfilled by it.
My second piece of advice, and this goes back to what I said about comparing yourself to others, is that everybody starts out as an amateur. No one enters their career at the top of their game, and in everything you do, it takes time to get better. You also have to make mistakes - you can’t learn unless you do so. It’s okay to start at the bottom and move to the top, it’s okay to make mistakes, it’s okay to learn.
For women, and especially for women that are architects, I would say to please take time to build relationships and build your network, and not only outside of your firms, but within your workplace as well. Don’t be afraid to build relationships with the people who are more senior in your firm - be curious with them, ask them for their thoughts, get to know them. Those folks will provide information, opportunities for advancement, and other things that can help you. Build relationships both within your firm, and take the time to get involved outside of your firm, such as with an industry organization that you really really like. Spend time there and with your peer group; your best relationships will never fail you