Architecture of Place: Diller Scofidio + Renfro's Holly Deichmann Chacon and Zoë Star Small on Setting Strong Examples in Design and in Life

By Julia Gamolina

Holly Deichmann Chacon is an Associate Principal at Diller Scofidio + Renfro (DS+R). She was the Project Architect of the United States Olympic & Paralympic Museum in Colorado Springs, Colorado, and the Project Director for the adjoining Park Union Bridge, a curved steel structure connecting the museum campus to the adjacent America the Beautiful Park. Before joining Diller Scofidio + Renfro, Holly worked with Peter Gluck Architects (now Gluck+) as Project Manager for the Lakeside Retreat in the Adirondacks of New York. Prior to her time at Gluck+, Holly worked at OMA Rotterdam in the Netherlands and OMA Beijing in China, where she was the Project Architect of the CCTV Headquarters. Holly’s previous roles also include Project Architect at Istanbullu Architects for the City of Los Angeles Westchester-Loyola Village Branch Library.

Zoë Star Small is an Associate Principal at Diller Scofidio + Renfro (DS+R). Zoë currently serves as Project Leader for a technology company's Flagship Building in New York City. Zoë was also a Project Leader for the Museum of Modern Art expansion, and design phase Project Leader for the Berkeley Art Museum & Pacific Film Archive at the University of California, Berkeley. Zoë also served as Project Manager for The Broad Plaza in Los Angeles and the winning Zaryadye Park competition in Moscow. Prior to joining Diller Scofidio + Renfro, Zoë worked with TEN Arquitectos as Project Manager and a Senior Designer for the James Hotel in West Hollywood, and the winning Guggenheim Guadalajara Competition in Jalisco. While with Polshek Partnership (now Ennead Architects), she was a Project Designer for the Omaha Performing Arts Center in Omaha, Nebraska, the National Museum of the American Indian (NMAI) in Washington, D.C., and the Public Theater renovation in New York.

In their interview, Holly and Zoë talk about dedication and commitment to a vision, the professional relationships and friendships that last for life, and being mothers in a creative profession. They advise those just starting their careers to look for a firm where one can be mentored and learn from those around them, and to remember that architecture is a team sport, but one must never cease being their own advocate.

How did your interest in architecture first develop?

HDC: As a child, I was fascinated by ancient places, by structures that had not only endured for centuries, but had remained iconically beautiful through time. Growing up in the Netherlands, my family’s travels catalyzed my initial interest in buildings and structures. I formed a new perspective of my own culture by experiencing the culture of others through architecture. I remember being emotionally transported by the soaring grandeur of French cathedrals. At that time, you could walk into the Acropolis in Athens, and I remember posing as a caryatid, loving the idea of women holding up majestic buildings.

ZSS: I grew up in New York City, and my father was an art director for an ad agency. From time to time I’d spend a day at his office. His colleague gave me sugary biscotti, and that was pretty special, but even more exciting was the supply closet — it was filled with tools and materials, each with a unique purpose and power: endless rolls of vellum, heaps of marker, boxes of colored pencils, T-squares, and plastic triangles. My dad was very dedicated to his job. He would work at his adjustable desk late into the night while eating a bag of whole wheat pretzels. I emulated his strong work ethic, rigor and meticulousness.

As a pre-teen, I took drawing classes at the Art Students League. I went on to major in art at Laguardia High School of Music and Art and the Performing Arts. I really loved all of my art classes, but even back then I tended to exercise a certain level of precision in each medium, and when the time came for electives I chose architecture. The architecture teacher was raspy-voiced, irreverent, and frank. She had a down-to-earth style that made me comfortable asking questions and being myself. Our main project was to design our dream house. It was a welcome opportunity to roam around my own imagination — and it gave me the chance to use all those tools and materials I’d seen at my father’s office. I most enjoyed making the physical model that brought the space I’d imagined to life. I remember spending a whole weekend cutting the tops off a handful of intricately decorated toothpicks to fashion the handrails for my dream house. I was totally hooked.

When I was accepted to Cornell’s B.Arch program, I worried that I wouldn’t be able to afford tuition. My no-nonsense architecture teacher sat me down in her office and told me this was a once in a lifetime opportunity that I could not pass up and that if I ever had trouble, she would support me. Her confidence gave me a boost, and I enrolled.

Hypar Pavilion & Lincoln Ristorante. Photography by Iwan Baan.

David H. Koch Theater. Courtesy of DS+R.

What did you learn about yourself in studying architecture?

HDC: I learned grit and perseverance. Any worthwhile project requires dedication, commitment to a vision, and patience as part of a team. In school I realized that I was a visual thinker, and as a professional, I’ve learned that I also like to run projects. As a team leader, I spend a lot of energy on coordination and communication; I balance the separate tasks of motivating my team, coordinating consultants, and ensuring client satisfaction. That requires organization of time, team, resources and budgets so I focus particularly on good communication skills. Most of all, I learned that I have a passion for architecture, that I enjoy combining the creative with the practical.

ZSS: As an undergraduate I learned that I am a really hard worker and have a lot of stamina for seeking the best solution to a given problem. I take critique seriously, and there are times when I will stop at nothing to address it. In school these traits compelled me to do more all-nighters than I could count, searching for those solutions up until the moment my review began, and sometimes beyond.

The summer after graduation, I stayed at Cornell to teach the high school architecture program, and I think that was when I learned the most about the study of architecture. For the first time I had to put into words all these abstract concepts I’d grappled with in school, and to try to inspire someone else to care about them like I did. I realized a major reason I gravitated towards expressing myself in an architectural rather than a fine arts language was that architecture uses reasoning and problem-solving to generate ideas. It was the particular method of problem-solving — in which the question, the solution, and the process to get from one to the other was as important as the product — that was somehow comforting. Architecture gave me a sense of structure, resolution, closure and accomplishment.

“Any worthwhile project requires dedication, commitment to a vision, and patience as part of a team.”

— Holly Deichmann Chacon

How did you get your start in the field?

HDC: While a student, I had a broad range of internships which exposed me to many aspects of the practice from large scale planning, to detailing, to designing from the ground up. One of these was in Osaka, Japan, for the Takenaka Corporation. During my time in Japan, I was fortunate to have the opportunity to visit many temples and gardens in Kyoto and the region, spending time studying the design, reading about the design principles, sketching and photographing. It led me to reflect not just about space making, but about the experience of approaching a building or garden; how experience is sequenced and unfolds. It also influenced my thinking about the relationship between indoor and outdoor spaces and how linking them can enhance the experience of both.

My first job out of graduate school was working with Eric Owen Moss in Culver City, California. One of my projects at the Yale University School of Architecture caught his attention. Eric’s office was great not only because of the provocative designs, but because his projects were under construction just down the street and I spent many lunch breaks at the job site. My real professional growth in detailed design came after that, when Aleks Istanbullu mentored me for countless hours as we designed and detailed projects together. It was there that I feel I truly became an architect.

ZSS: I started architecture school in the 90’s when the market was at a low point. As my class assembled for the first time, the Arch 101 professors told us each to look to the left and then to the right. They said that if we had graduated earlier that spring, neither of our neighbors would currently have jobs. At the time it felt like I was at the bottom of an abyss. But I had made a commitment, and there was no choice but to start climbing.

After graduation I headed back to New York City with a portfolio and a list of contacts patched together from advisors and professors. I worked methodically through the list, showing up at each office in person to ask for an interview. Most of them turned me away, but after a humiliating month of rejections, two job offers finally came in. One was from Polshek Partnership Architects, now Ennead. I sought advice from a trusted professor who recommended starting a career at a firm with a solid reputation; that a first job can be a place to build work relationships and friendships that persist for life; and that a mid-size, full service firm would introduce me to a wide array of knowledgeable peers. That proved to be good advice.

At Polshek my first assignment was to draw interior elevations for the toilet rooms at the Smithsonian’s National Museum of the American Indian (NMAI). I poured my heart into those elevations! I then went on to help design smaller elements like the NMAI information desk and larger ones like the museum theater. Over the course of several project that followed, I learned the foundational technical skills of architecture; I was surrounded by examples of proper professional practice; and participated in all phases of design and construction. And, indeed, I did make a lot of enduring professional connections and friendships.

Where else did you land before DS+R?

HDC: After working with Aleks, I made my way to Rotterdam and Beijing, working for OMA. I was a Senior Designer for the 6 million square foot China Central Television Headquarters. A big part of this involved the 200,000 square foot guard Service Building, for which I coordinated the 99 elevators, escalators, people movers and lifts for the project, and coordinated all food services. The experience of living abroad and working with different cultures was rewarding and challenging. Giving directions to cab drivers and Mandarin were probably the most challenging parts.

After my time with OMA, I joined GLUCK+ as the lead project designer and manager for a residential lakeside retreat including a main house, recreation building, boathouse, two guesthouses and a garage and workshop. Because Gluck+ not only does the design, but then also builds the project, we were able to control every aspect of this Great Camp in the Adirondacks. Peter was an incredible mentor.

ZSS: I moved to dbox, a firm specializing in visualization, because it was a smaller office that offered the chance to run my own projects. I learned a ton about rendering and overall graphic communication, some basics about project management, and made great progress on repaying my student loans. After a year of focusing on visualization, I dove back into my first architectural assignment at TEN Arquitectos: a hotel in West Hollywood. I was a team lead deeply involved in every aspect of the project from detailing to presenting to the city. I happily lived a bicoastal existence of alternating marathon work sessions in LA with our executive architect, and intense design charrettes back in New York. Then one day, abruptly, we learned the project site and the hotel brand name had been sold off, and the project would immediately stop. Most of us will experience this kind of heartbreak at least once during our careers, and this was my most formidable.

I then joined DS+R to work on Lincoln Center, which offered the coveted chance to engage a project from early SD through CA. Having attended high school in the neighborhood, I was already familiar with the vulnerabilities of the campus, and I was proud of being part of its rebirth. One part of the project that seems particularly pivotal was the small, fast-paced, adrenaline-filled renovation of the David Koch Theater ticket booth. The booth had to represent both the NYC Opera and the NYC Ballet, who shared the theater in staggered seasons. We started two months before opening night. Our solution used a technique from Marcel Duchamp in which accordion-folded planes receive strips of two distinct images on every other facet. When viewed obliquely from one side or the other, each image re-aggregates. The construction schedule was so tight it had to be broken down by the hour. The folded wall was only 33 feet long but it employed five consultants and twelve contractors — plus myself as ‘installer of the signage’ — and it took every last minute of those two months to complete. By opening night, my understanding of the entire architectural process from conception to completion was fully fortified, and the interdependence of project participants illuminated in a way that has since enabled an instinctive appreciation of perspectives from all sides of the table.

“I’ve worked hard to carve out my place without having to be anyone but myself...As a junior architect, I made it a mission to continually gather as much information as possible, to find and grow into suitable roles, and to build confidence along the way.”

— Zoë Star Small

Where are you both in your career today?

HDC: I want to continue designing buildings that make the world a better place, and to continue challenging design and leading teams as we learn and try new things together. I look forward to taking on larger projects with greater complexity and larger teams. But I love spending time with my children, so aim to foster balance in life as well.

ZSS: I have been fortunate to be a part of meaningful projects, and to have had key leadership positions on several of them. There are many architects now that are women, but it is still disproportionately rare for us to serve in leadership roles.

In some ways I was lucky because the sequence of life events enabled me to work for nearly all of my career without constraints — real or perceived — on time or passion. The undivided youthful energy of my early career could be focused on establishing a place for myself in the profession, getting licensed and certified, and moving toward leadership positions. I never had to set limits on that commitment — until my daughter was born in 2017.

Now that I am a parent, I face the challenge every single day to maintain professionalism and also dedicated mothering. I’m constantly concerned this pressure will create a perception that I am somehow less reliable than my male counterparts, even those who are also parents. The reality is that home emergencies do arise, and sometimes I’ve had to drop everything and tend to them. But I have been able to address those urgent situations - and then some, and then some more - and still completed my work! These days, there is barely a professional mother who hasn’t experienced the great glory — in retrospect — of simultaneously leading a teleconference while taking notes, eating lunch, and pumping breast milk.

Lakeside Retreat Guesthouse, from Holly’s time with GLUCK+.

In a leadership team of seventeen at DS+R — including partners, principals, and associate principals — you are two out of three women, the third being Liz Diller. Talk to me about this, and what this has meant for your growth.

HDC: I feel that in recent years, there has been increasing awareness of the gap in the number of women in leadership positions within our profession at large, which has ramped up efforts to support the smart, capable women in the studio, from mentoring the more junior designers to recognizing the accomplishments of more seasoned principals who have been at the firm for years. The partners have been very supportive of me and my growth in the studio over this past decade.

ZSS: I haven’t considered being a woman as factoring into where I am in my career - or where I am not. I’ve worked hard to carve out my place without having to be anyone but myself. On my first self-evaluation at Polshek I wrote that my long term goal was to “be the one people ask questions of rather than the one asking the questions.” As a junior architect, I made it a mission to continually gather as much information as possible, to find and grow into suitable roles, and to build confidence along the way.

I arrived at my DS+R interview with ideas, opinions, and a voice. I was eager to find a studio that would enable me to continue to grow. At DS+R everyone has a voice. We are free - and even expected - to express our passions about design and management. It’s important to get out in front of projects, to take risks, trust yourself to work through problems, put your ideas on the table, and push to be involved in work even if it’s outside of your familiar capabilities. I try to encourage these traits in my colleagues, men and women alike.

“Hearing the stories of Paralympians and Olympians while designing the project was inspiring and it is wonderful to know that there will be a place where their stories will be told to a wider audience.”

— Holly Deichmann Chacon

With all this in mind, what have been the biggest challenges?

HDC: When you care about the design deeply, working on a design-build project, where we are a sub-contractor to the General Contractor, is most challenging. The goals for the general contractor and the architect do not always align, and it is definitely a big challenge.

Balancing work and family life is a challenge, but DS+R has been very supportive of me. For example, after my daughter was born, they supported my phased return back into a full-time schedule to make the transition easier.

Beyond DS+R, it is unfortunately true in American business, including architecture, that women often have to work harder than men, while receiving less financial compensation than men. Maybe that’s because of a bias toward traditionally male behaviors, communication styles that are more outspoken or aggressive or hierarchical. That’s a challenge we all have to fight together.

ZSS: Mustering the courage to be my own advocate.

The United States Olympic & Paralympic Museum. Photography by Jason O'Rear.

The United States Olympic & Paralympic Museum. Photography by Iwan Baan.

The United States Olympic & Paralympic Museum and the Park Union Bridge. Photography by Jason O Rear.

What have been the highlights, and what are you most proud of?

HDC: I am really proud of the U.S. Olympic & Paralympic Museum. It is an incredibly special design and I think it’s one of DS+R’s best. Hearing the stories of Paralympians and Olympians while designing the project was inspiring and it is wonderful to know that there will be a place where their stories will be told to a wider audience. And I hope that when I look back in ten years, the project truly will be a catalyst to revitalize this area of Colorado Springs.

The lakeside retreat that I worked on for Peter Gluck and Partners was designed to be a place for the greater family to gather and rejuvenate. In our first meeting on the site, the client told us to “Go wild. I want this place to be amazing.” We took that statement to heart and created a place where the family still gathers; the client’s appreciation was extremely touching, and knowing that they have this as a central piece of building family connections is rewarding.

ZSS: Being my own advocate. Having colleagues tell me things they learned from me. Working on projects like Lincoln Center and MoMA – public, institutional projects that improve the city and the places I frequented as a kid. Growing up, one of the only ways my aunt could get me to go to a museum was by promising chocolate cake afterwards. The incentive worked, so I spent a lot of time in museums, and eventually began to pay attention to the art on the way to the cake. All these years later, it’s surreal to have been a leading member of the MoMA Renovation, and I haven’t even tried their new cake.

“Being a mother as well as a professional in a job that doesn’t keep the traditional distinctions of working and non-working hours has me constantly re-evaluating what it means to ‘give it my all’.”

— Zoë Star Small

Who are you admiring right now and why?

HDC: Right now I am really admiring single parents who not only work but simultaneously raise children, especially when that means you are now the primary teacher during this COVID-19 crisis.

I also just read Becoming and have newfound admiration for Michelle Obama, who came from humble beginnings but retained grace and humility and authenticity even as a prominent public figure.

ZSS: Architects that are parents. Being a mother as well as a professional in a job that doesn’t keep the traditional distinctions of working and non-working hours has me constantly re-evaluating what it means to ‘give it my all’. I’d never had to define limits for myself before, and I find that incredibly challenging. I truly admire working parents who find peace and balance in this midst of the inevitable chaos of juggling two roles that demand our ‘all’.

What is the impact you’d like to have on the world? What is your core mission? What does success mean to you?

HDC: Creating structures and spaces that make the world a better place is at the heart of my mission. In my ideal world, I am making spaces for the greater good. It gives me great satisfaction knowing that the projects on which I have worked will make someone’s life better and help them see the world in a new way.

ZSS: Help make inspiring, inclusive and relevant buildings and public spaces. Set a positive example for those in the profession, and for my daughter so she continues to be strong, fearless, independent-minded and happy. I also firmly believe in giving back to the architectural community. Though my personal time has been limited lately, I still make an effort to act as a mentor to current and previous colleagues.

Finally, what advice do you have for those starting their career?

HDC: For me, working in a small firm to start was really invaluable. When you are at a small firm, you are exposed to lots of different tasks and the learning curve is high. I would also look for a firm where you can be mentored and learn from those around you.

ZSS: Rest up, take risks, acknowledge your strengths, and recognize your mistakes. Also, remember that architecture is a team sport, but never cease being your own advocate.